Pete

Hi All,

I'm looking to make the move and "go 64 bit".

I've sorta narrowed it down to 3 possible platforms:

Sun Workstation (Blade 1500)
AMD 64 bit CPU (running FreeBSD or Solaris)
Apple Mac G5

I'm really looking to replace my old and slow O2 workstation and I'm
tempted to go solaris because of its stability and consitent feel with
CDE. However, the O2 had really top notch audio and video support both
from a hardware point of view and from within the OS (commandline
tools like sfrecord etc).

So, my questions are:

Does the Blade Workstation range have this inherent multimedia
support? Does solaris come with audio stuff to support the hardware?
Can I add a professional sound card (optical, RCA inputs etc)?

I notice it has Firewire, but are there any expansion options to give
it video capture or audio support - PCI or otherwise?

Also, is the SunPCI Coprocessor card really a workable solution? I'd
like to replace as many of the machines I have with one big "does
everything" box - but I need to have windows around to stay compatable
with customers etc. VMware on FreeBSD or Virtual PC on Mac can be
pretty slow.

Side question:
If I go peecee (AMD) and run solaris is it likely to get a 64bit
version or will 64bit be SPARC only?

I know, I know *way* too many questions.......

Any advice gratefully accepted.

Thanks in advance.

Pete.

Doug McIntyre

mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com (Pete) writes:
>I'm looking to make the move and "go 64 bit".

Probably a non-event for the most part.

>Sun Workstation (Blade 1500)
>AMD 64 bit CPU (running FreeBSD or Solaris)
>Apple Mac G5

>Does the Blade Workstation range have this inherent multimedia
>support? Does solaris come with audio stuff to support the hardware?

It will have programs that would let you control volume and do simple
records and playback, but not much else in the way of audio.

>Can I add a professional sound card (optical, RCA inputs etc)?

I don't know of any with drivers on Solaris. Sun has their 3rd party
Hardware I/O driver list.

http://www.sun.com/io_technologies/ihvindex.html


>I notice it has Firewire, but are there any expansion options to give
>it video capture or audio support - PCI or otherwise?

Firewall support is very limited on Solaris. Not many support devices
there, IIRC not even harddrives are supported through it, just some
video capture stuff. They still have PCI slots, and the 3rd party
hardware above.

If multi-media is important, I'd probably lean to the Mac solution. I
love my Solaris workstations, and use them day-to-day for work, but
for fun stuff, my powerbook is definately alot more fun for doing
anything with video & audio.


>Also, is the SunPCI Coprocessor card really a workable solution? I'd
>like to replace as many of the machines I have with one big "does
>everything" box - but I need to have windows around to stay compatable
>with customers etc. VMware on FreeBSD or Virtual PC on Mac can be
>pretty slow.

Yep, this really kicks butt on a Solaris machine. Much better than the
virtual solution. I have a version 1 card, which is mightly slow
now. Rather than upgrade this card to match though, I run a seperate
windows machine and remote terminal into it to do the things that
absolutely have to be done on windows.

>Side question:
>If I go peecee (AMD) and run solaris is it likely to get a 64bit
>version or will 64bit be SPARC only?

Sun has said that they will eventually do a 64-bit version of Solaris x86.
There's no definate release schedule right now, so its still kind of
up in the air on that.
--
Doug McIntyre merlyn@visi.com
Network Engineer/Jack of All Trades
Vector Internet Services, Inc.

Rich Teer

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Pete wrote:

> Also, is the SunPCI Coprocessor card really a workable solution? I'd

Absolutely. I have a Sun PCI IIpro for when I HAVE to run Windoze
(about twice per month). It works well, and save a ton of desk space.

> If I go peecee (AMD) and run solaris is it likely to get a 64bit
> version or will 64bit be SPARC only?

Solaris will definately support 64-bit operation on Opteron CPUs,
although probably not before Solaris 10. Until then, you'd have
to "make do" with only 32-bit support. Or, you can start using
Solaris Express, and get 64-bit AMD support as soon as it is made
available outside Sun.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

Nikola Krgovic

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 05:21:20 -0700, Pete wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking to make the move and "go 64 bit".
>
> I've sorta narrowed it down to 3 possible platforms:
>
> Sun Workstation (Blade 1500)
> AMD 64 bit CPU (running FreeBSD or Solaris)
> Apple Mac G5
>
> I'm really looking to replace my old and slow O2 workstation and I'm
> tempted to go solaris because of its stability and consitent feel with
> CDE. However, the O2 had really top notch audio and video support both
> from a hardware point of view and from within the OS (commandline
> tools like sfrecord etc).
>

I would recommend that you keep your O2 for the multimedia work. Of all
the machines you listed only the Mac can try to compare, but you probably
will not be satisfied with a lot on Mac OS. It's a Unix all right, but SO
well hidden that you can't tell. Even basic stuff is sooo different.

If I were in your shoes I would buy the Blade - you'll get the most,
especially regarding longeivity and "the feeling" os Unix. A PC is nice,
but nowhere near the Sun, and the Mac is just too much a "multimedia /
designer's" machine. Use X and work on both machines at once, using each
for what it does best.

Also if you might consider getting a small Sun server, instead of the
Blade if you don't need two consoles at once - a V210 or V250 would offer
you much more expansion, with the same speed.

As for the Sun PCI - it will work OK, depending on what you expect of it.
If you want Office, or IE - it will be more that enough. If you want games
- I suggest you try something else. Than a Mac would be the best choice of
the three.

Regards,
Nikola.

Pete

Thanks guys,

Hmmm this is getting complicated.

I had a look at the sound cards available for Solaris and found only
this one:

http://www.sbei.net/pages/products/a...als/p-0027.htm

Looks like the sort of thing you'd find in a cheap pc 5 years ago...

I should probably say that I already own a G4 Powerbook (400Mhz slow
version) and while I like the Macos for multimedia stuff it seems to
be a "single task" OS. It handles one task ok but try getting it to do
2 or 3 things at once and it's hello spinning beachball - with the SGI
(although woefully underpowered at 180 Mhz) no matter how hard you
push it the GUI still stays snappy and responsive which helps you feel
that your getting work done!

I'm leaning towards a Blade, maybe running SGI headless for sound
capture (heck its about the same size as my hifi, so I can find room),
and keep my mac for the creative stuff (dreamweaver, email, Office...
and asking dumb questions in newsgroups!)

This leads me to the following questions:

The SunPCI card? How does that work exactly?

PCI @ 33Mhz seems like a recipe for a bottleneck - or does it never
actually interact with the main system ie. totaly stand alone with its
own video and IO (the picture on sun.com makes me think this). PCI
slot for power supply only?

Can I run windows full screen? Does it have a bios?

Can I put in an old HD and have a dedicated NTFS disk or does it need
to boot from a virtual filesystem on the solaris disk?

Will it effectivly give me another computer? I'd like to use Windows
to run stuff like Photoshop, Illustrator, Rhino3d and maybe lightwave
- could I leave the PC rendering a scene and "do solaris work" and
then swap back when it's complete?

I'm planning to run the machine 24/7 so having two computers as
opposed to 2 processors appeals.

TIA

Pete.

Robin KAY

Pete wrote:

> I had a look at the sound cards available for Solaris and found only
> this one:
>
> http://www.sbei.net/pages/products/a...als/p-0027.htm
>
> Looks like the sort of thing you'd find in a cheap pc 5 years ago...

OSS is available for Solaris/SPARC (see
http://www.opensound.com/solaris-sparc.html ). It supports lots of
sounds cards but you'll have to purchase it separately.

[snip]

> Can I put in an old HD and have a dedicated NTFS disk or does it need
> to boot from a virtual filesystem on the solaris disk

I think some versions of the card had IDE connectors, but the SunPCi III
doesn't appear to. Typically the host system emulates the disk.
Connectors are provided for video, HID, and ethernet or they can be
emulated by the host system.

--
Wishing you good fortune,
--Robin Kay-- (komadori)

Rich Teer

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Pete wrote:

> I had a look at the sound cards available for Solaris and found only
> this one:
>
> http://www.sbei.net/pages/products/a...als/p-0027.htm
>
> Looks like the sort of thing you'd find in a cheap pc 5 years ago...

EMU had a fairly powerful soundcard that they supported by
Solaris.

> I'm leaning towards a Blade, maybe running SGI headless for sound
> capture (heck its about the same size as my hifi, so I can find room),
> and keep my mac for the creative stuff (dreamweaver, email, Office...
> and asking dumb questions in newsgroups!)

The SB 1500 would also be a good choice for all of the above, except
Dreamweaver. I hope by "Office" you mean "Open Office" or "Star
Office"...

> The SunPCI card? How does that work exactly?

It's essentially a PC on a PCI card. It has many of its own
interfaces, but it can also access those of the host system.
The hard drives are emulated using files on the host system.

> PCI @ 33Mhz seems like a recipe for a bottleneck - or does it never
> actually interact with the main system ie. totaly stand alone with its
> own video and IO (the picture on sun.com makes me think this). PCI
> slot for power supply only?

You can use them both ways. For convenience, I display the
output of my PCi card on the host (or more accurately, on a
completely different machine, displaying accross the network),
as that saves me having to find space for another monitor.

> Can I run windows full screen? Does it have a bios?

Yes and yes.

> Can I put in an old HD and have a dedicated NTFS disk or does it need
> to boot from a virtual filesystem on the solaris disk?

The latter.

> Will it effectivly give me another computer? I'd like to use Windows
> to run stuff like Photoshop, Illustrator, Rhino3d and maybe lightwave
> - could I leave the PC rendering a scene and "do solaris work" and
> then swap back when it's complete?

Yes, absolutely. If you display on the host, the PCI screen looks
just like any other window - except of course, INSIDE that window
is a complete Windoze session.

> I'm planning to run the machine 24/7 so having two computers as
> opposed to 2 processors appeals.

Good luck in getting Windoze to stay up 24/7... :-)

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

Marco Bakker

Pete <mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks guys,
>
> Hmmm this is getting complicated.
>
> I had a look at the sound cards available for Solaris and found only
> this one:
>
> http://www.sbei.net/pages/products/a...als/p-0027.htm
>
> Looks like the sort of thing you'd find in a cheap pc 5 years ago...
>
> I should probably say that I already own a G4 Powerbook (400Mhz slow
> version) and while I like the Macos for multimedia stuff it seems to
> be a "single task" OS. It handles one task ok but try getting it to do
> 2 or 3 things at once and it's hello spinning beachball

Then I presume you are low on memory (less than 512 MB?) and/or you're
running an older version of Mac OS X, not 10.3.x.

--
marco

Doug McIntyre

Rich Teer <rich.teer@rite-group.com> writes:
>On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Pete wrote:
>> I had a look at the sound cards available for Solaris and found only
>> this one:
>>
>> http://www.sbei.net/pages/products/a...als/p-0027.htm
>>
>> Looks like the sort of thing you'd find in a cheap pc 5 years ago...

>EMU had a fairly powerful soundcard that they supported by
>Solaris.

I have one. The driver code only works in Solaris 8 due to them using
non-DDI/DDK functions. It was roughly equivilent to a Soundblaster
Audigy card with the 10k1 chip with alot less mixer in's and out's. Just
different enough that OSS can't support it.

They've shut down all knowledge of it now, and support was just about
non-existant when they did have it.

--
Doug McIntyre merlyn@visi.com
Network Engineer/Jack of All Trades
Vector Internet Services, Inc.

Pete

.... only me ...

>I hope by "Office" you mean "Open Office" or "StarOffice"...

Ermm, provided you have no follow-up questions, then "Yes, yes
absolutely". Oh, okay then I'll be honest - it's MS Office!


>> Can I put in an old HD and have a dedicated NTFS disk or does it
need
>> to boot from a virtual filesystem on the solaris disk?

>The latter.

Does this make it slower? Seems it might do... what with overheads
etc.

>Good luck in getting Windoze to stay up 24/7... :-)

Hmm reminds me of that old Steven Wright joke about him complaining
that the 24 hours store was closing - to which the shopkeeper replied
"Sure, were open 24 hours ...but not in a row...."

>Then I presume you are low on memory (less than 512 MB?) and/or
you're running an older version of Mac OS X, not 10.3.x.

Yeah, 256MB RAM on 400Mhz PB with MacOS 10.2.8. I had promised myself
to upgrade to Panther when my next major OS catastrophe happed - the
system is limping but refuses to die completely. By the time I'm
forced to do a complete install 10.4.x will probably be out ;-)

Back on track re: Blade. Can I add a standard Adaptec 2940 SCSI host
adapter and put in SCSI disks? On the O2 SGI eprom branded a special
2940 and charged megabucks for it. You couldn't put in a regular
peecee of-the-shelf one without major hassles. Presumable Sun don't
force you to buy a special "Sun 2940"? Or do they.

I'm going to do some research to find out the chances of getting a
sound blaster Audigy card with all the ports running on solaris, and
if so then I guess I'll be forking up for the Blade.

Thanks again

Pete.

Pete

Hmm ... just thinking about the MacOS being best for "one app at time"
and not really a multitask monster. It strikes me that that's how they
*want* it to be used - otherwise why have the apple menu take up the
whole of the top of the screen.

It's that ol' horses for courses thing again ....

Pete.

Rich Teer

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Pete wrote:

> Ermm, provided you have no follow-up questions, then "Yes, yes
> absolutely". Oh, okay then I'll be honest - it's MS Office!

You have more money than sense! ;-)

> >The latter.
>
> Does this make it slower? Seems it might do... what with overheads
> etc.

I don't think the hit would be tooooo big. My Sun PCi performance
is "acceptable", and I run the software on one machine, mount the
"C:" drive from another, and display on a third! "The Network is
the Computer"!

> Hmm reminds me of that old Steven Wright joke about him complaining
> that the 24 hours store was closing - to which the shopkeeper replied
> "Sure, were open 24 hours ...but not in a row...."

Steven Wright - a classic comedian!

> Back on track re: Blade. Can I add a standard Adaptec 2940 SCSI host

Persoanlly, I wouldn't touch the Adaptec HBAs; go for LSI based
ones instead. But yes, provided you get the right one, you don't
need to get the Sun branded HBA. A cheaper, generic, one will do
the job.

> adapter and put in SCSI disks? On the O2 SGI eprom branded a special
> 2940 and charged megabucks for it. You couldn't put in a regular
> peecee of-the-shelf one without major hassles. Presumable Sun don't
> force you to buy a special "Sun 2940"? Or do they.

If you want to boot from it, I think you might need one with the
fcode on it.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

Darren Dunham

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Pete <mr_peter_stevenson@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Back on track re: Blade. Can I add a standard Adaptec 2940 SCSI host
> adapter and put in SCSI disks?

Does adaptec make a Solaris driver for their card? You'd need that.

> On the O2 SGI eprom branded a special
> 2940 and charged megabucks for it. You couldn't put in a regular
> peecee of-the-shelf one without major hassles. Presumable Sun don't
> force you to buy a special "Sun 2940"? Or do they.

As far as I'm aware, Sun makes no drivers for adaptec cards.

One line of sun cards is similar to a set of LSI cards and the OS
provided 'glm' drivers will work with them.

A scsi card may or may not have open firmware drivers so that the OBP
can communicate with the card. Without them, Solaris can use the card
just fine, but you cannot boot from it or see it in 'probe-scsi-all'.

--
Darren Dunham ddunham@taos.com
Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/
Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area
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