Will Apple ever pass Microsoft? - Talk Root - PC Hardware, Software and Web Development forums

imported_Spencer · 12-23-2004, 07:34 PM

Is it even possible? I just don't see Apple ever taking 51% of the computer market. Microsoft is just too strong and powerful for Apple to come even close. Microsoft just has too many ties with businesses to allow Apple to ever get close enough. I think Apple will never have more the 25% of the personal computer market.

imported_Errant · 12-23-2004, 07:35 PM

Microsoft will die. If not Apple, another company will take it down enough to below Apple's level. :)

I believe...!

The EU is a good friend at least :)

markblair · 12-23-2004, 08:23 PM

How can you compare the two? They are entirely different businesses outside of the fact they have connections in technology. Plus, remember this, Bill Gates owns some stock in Apple and has in the past helped them out financially.

dmaestro3 · 12-27-2004, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markblair

How can you compare the two? They are entirely different businesses outside of the fact they have connections in technology. Plus, remember this, Bill Gates owns some stock in Apple and has in the past helped them out financially.

I'll have to agree with Mark here,
Apple isn't trying to pass out Microsoft for marketshare, they just want to increase their market share overall, I would have to say its probably around 3-3.5% now, I think they have a short term goal of about 5%, and a long term goal of probably around 10%. Its going to take a lot of time to convert the world into Mac users, also Microsoft offers a lot of crap that Apple will never get invovled with, so will Apple ever pass M$ as a company, I would have to say no, but in terms of PC marketshare, I doubt it also, although I expect to see them increase their marketshare.

orion_joel · 12-27-2004, 04:39 PM

I dont really see that Microsoft and Apple can be compared as even having the same marketshare. Yes Apple may offer an Operating System and they have i would assume a 100% market share of machines that can run there operating system.

But as the main division of a company Apple builds Machines and Microsoft Builds Software. They are two totally different markets. If Apple was to ever rival Microsoft for Size of company then you would see microsoft office a lot more products then just office:mac as they do now. I am sure you would see them trying to have everything running so they can maintain there marketshare.

imported_Errant · 12-27-2004, 05:55 PM

It's not that they could be ultimately compared or rather, judged in terms of total marketshare or Apple finally "taking over"... its more, "Does the EU's decision affect the end-user? Will the lack of bundled software on the PC-side affect total sales when compared to Mac's suite?". I don't see any huge world conversion anytime now, but I was wondering as to if this would affect Apple's marketshare in any way. I would think it would, and positively.

ArunK · 12-27-2004, 11:42 PM

This is NOT likely to happen anytimes soon.. Actually, more like NEVER.. sorry to disappoint all of you Apple fans out there.. There is more than enough room for both companies to exist, Apple has its core group supporters who will continue to support it no matter what. Whether its because they are really hardcore Apple fans or they just want to be in the anti Microsoft column.

markblair · 12-28-2004, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errant

...but I was wondering as to if this would affect Apple's marketshare in any way. I would think it would, and positively.

I honestly don't think the EU ruling will have any affect on Apple. Positively or negatively. Apple has not bundled software together like Microsoft has and as far as I know, they had no plans to do so. The only thing I can see this doing is making it known to Apple to not try it. But I don't think they wanted to anyway.

However, I do see this hurting the PC consumers tremendously. Why? Simple. That $500 operating system that came with all the extra software now won't come with all that extra software. It'll still cost $500 but it'll be "extra" for all that additional software. Like I said in another thread, thankfully this is only happening in Europe. I just hope it stays there.

Fox · 01-17-2005, 02:53 PM

I don't think it's possible for Apple to pass Microsoft. Microsoft just has too much of a grip on the personal computer industry. Windows is just too big for it. I think Apple can give them a run for their money, but I think in the end Windows will win. Bill Gates is rich enough to be able to invest his money so that it never happens.

imported_Errant · 01-18-2005, 03:16 PM

Apple will probably not pass Microsoft. Microsoft has its nose pretty much in every damn place it can stick it. I mean everywhere. I'm sure everyone understands/knows this feeling.

Comparing Apple to Microsoft, I feel nowadays, is quite like comparing fye or RecordTown to WalMart. Will FYE or RecordTown ever outsell WalMart? Not a snowball's chance in hell, unless hell freezes over (aka, WalMart bites it on its very own).

What I'm more interested in is comparing apples to Apples. (Bad pun).

Now, there are many different battle fronts that Apple is currently warring on...

For the sake of clarity/lack of flame, lets assume the following battles are already settled:

1)General OS War. Windows-compatible OS'ses run on 95%+ of computers. I don't see this changing very quickly! But: How many of those computers will soon be running Windows and OSX? (Look for earlier multi0S - processor thread in this forum...)

2) Gaming War. We really don't need to enter this debate. 1) is enough, but the added "cheapness" of a PC + card + monitor is enough , coupled with current PC gaming technology/libraries, to keep performance crisp & at a low cost.

Now, where can you see Apple winning? Losing? Other than the above? :) I'm thinking specialty markets, but not just that, "general crowd" markets, such as multimedia users...

Discuss. :)

webmastermac · 01-20-2005, 06:52 PM

I personally see M$ along a road of aserious problems if they don't start delivering what they proimise- and more importantly become more security and stability conscience. Microsoft hires some of the most talented macinotsh programmers in the world to make Microsoft Office for the macintosh- they admit its better on the mac instead of microsofts own flagship OS- aint that sad! At this point microsoft needs to do some serious cleaning house with their Wintel developers and reconsider their windows foundation code and improve upon it majorly!

imported_Errant · 01-21-2005, 09:22 AM

I really think Windows needs two things, before long, or else it's going to lose some market share. I still don't see a dramatic change happening soon... when the industry "opened" it was basically a land grab. During that time, Microsoft got its huge edge. Now, it's basically a game of invasion and siege... it will take much longer for Apple to regain its share, even to 10%... but at least it has most of its' pride back.

I think Intel/AMD need to get together, or Motorola/Intel or Motorola/AMD... or whomever.. and design another processor. x86 is getting long in the tooth. The PPC processor was designed with multiple processors in mind, the x86 isnt. The x86 has 32 operations...PPC 90-something. Eventually, they will hit a wall, especially as the number of operations-per-second required in computing goes up. If 30 operations are reduced to 15 operations but you only need to do that set of operations, 10 times, then its not a big deal. 10 million times however, and that is a big deal. They need to stop designing silly subprocessors and get down to the meat of it.

They need a re-write of their entire operating system. Scratch the whole damn thing, throw it all out the window. Keep the API/Toolboxes the same, so developers don't have to learn too many new things, just what has changed underneath the surface (if anyone ever understands that on a PC... ).

I don't see eaither happening soon, of course. I'm getting a feeling that Windows will one day be phased out, but Microsoft, of course, will probably pick up shop and move elsewhere; my guess is the software market. Just like IBM... different markets though. If anything were to replace it though, it would need to be more user-friendly than Linux is currently... OSX for x86 anyone? :) (That would require alot of effort on Apple's part, with little promise of reward, unless they could somehow integrate all existing Windows software with OSX's x86 implementation...an even more daunting task!)

x86 processors will always exist... too much is written for them/exists for them not to be used, even if they aren't used on a computer, they can be used in other applications.

I'm not even really sure if Windows is Microsoft's main squeeze... I always thought it was Office or its Server software, or XBox :)

TGF · 02-01-2005, 09:08 AM

Microsoft is like the Ford of computers. Nice stuff, big name, always running commercials, and alll. Big mass-production.

Apple is like the Jaguar of computers. Very expensive, high quality, dont see 100 million commercials.

I suppose its POSSILE for apple to takeover, but do they want to?

imported_Errant · 02-01-2005, 05:32 PM

I'm really not sure. I think Apple is more interested in destroying Dell and Gateway than Microsoft.

Microsoft is playing fair ball nowadays, I guess at least more fair than it is used to playing with Apple, and I think the real question of the day is; does Apple stand to take over the "Chic" market? Will it dominate high-end, high-style computing the way that Ferrari dominates the car market in the high-end, or Bose in the sound industry?

I'm really not so sure about what PC vendors have a chance of doing this. Alienware is doing a great job selling tooled out gaming machines, but that applies to an even more specific market than Apple. Lets remember that Alienware computers are pretty expensive, and the gaming market largely revolves around what is cheap and powerful. In addition, Alienware has lots of competition on its side, although its brand name is amazing, and its been getting some heat lately for slow computer turnarounds... it needs more employees, basically. One of Alienware's larger competitors, Falcon Northwest, has been picking up steam lately because of this fact. Alienware is too busy; PC users turn to the "Next best"; FNW.

In addition, both computer companies are specifically targeted to the under-21 age group. Yeah, its cool to have a neon green computer with millions of gills when your 18, but when your 21, you have your own apartment, and you want stuff to look "modern", or nice next to your stereo system, or to have it not embarass you in front of your girlfriend/fiance, your going to look for something else...in addition, I think both of these companies really want to keep it on the DL. I think part of the reason why people buy these computers are because they are so very select. Its like having a Coach wallet or an Armani Suit.

As far as Dell and Gateway are concerned, I think they are both way off track for clutching this market. Dell has spent too long developing factory processes that produce decent-looking boxes at extremely cheap prices, and so has Gateway. Also, who buys a cow?

I mean, lets just put it simply. When people come into my apartment, they see my cinema display, my titanium-case dual g5, my bose 510's hanging to eaither side, and most of the time people turn to me and say "Holy christ, thats awesome." Not just from guys; everyone. Its definately one of the focal points of my room, everyone looks at it and comments on it, and occasionally they stare. I even moved it out into the living room because it was too damn cool to keep in the bedroom...and because I wanted to watch TV on my friends 50 inch Samsung while I was surfing ;)

If I could only find a DVI cable long enough to get to the TV... ;) Bahahaha.

And its not just this higher-end stuff that looks cool. I'm thinking of buying a Mini, hooking it up to the Samsung. Control it with a wireless remote, why not? When people ask where the computer is... ooh!

Or the iMac. I mean, the thing practically looks like a tablet PC with legs. A friend of mine has one. I'm not the only one who wonders where the computer is.

One of the greatest selling points of Apple was that it attempted, always, to remove the computer from the equation and bring the user directly into the enviroment with which they wanted to work. They attempted this at first with an extremely easy to use and friendly operating system, and now they are atttempting to complete the circle with design. While true, the g5 tower certainly screams computer, it also has a very industrial, powerhouse quality that makes you look at it like it means serious buisness. And after a year of owning it, its still screaming fast... and with 10.4, I hear the dual-processing will experience a huge increase in performance (apparently, thats the biggest improvement in the new OS). I can't wait for Tiger... :)

I guess the question is, moving along to a topic similar to the thread, will Apple ever pass HP, Gateway, or Dell? Obviously, HP will be the first to be passed, but it all depends. Does anyone have a guess as to what might happen? From what I understand, HP is the highest-end computer you can buy off the shelf at Circuit City, Gateway's are a little more user-consumer friendly, and Dell's are just straight out cheap. Am I correct in these assumptions? What giant do you see falling first?

imported_Spencer · 02-01-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errant

I guess the question is, moving along to a topic similar to the thread, will Apple ever pass HP, Gateway, or Dell? Obviously, HP will be the first to be passed, but it all depends. Does anyone have a guess as to what might happen? From what I understand, HP is the highest-end computer you can buy off the shelf at Circuit City, Gateway's are a little more user-consumer friendly, and Dell's are just straight out cheap. Am I correct in these assumptions? What giant do you see falling first?

I don't see Dell going anywhere. They are too big and too inexpensive. You see them all over college campuses nowadays. Then there's HP that is also a really large company since they purchased Compaq. That leaves Gateway to be the first to go down, I believe.