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  #16  
Old 03-20-2004, 04:46 PM
Doug Lerner
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

I believe the problem isn't carbs per say, but rather what happens when you
mix carbs with fats at the same time.

That is why a very low fat diet, like proposed by Dean Ornish, does work.
It's just very hard to stay on because we westerners don't find it truly
satisfying.

Before I started low-carbs I tried a low-fat diet for a few months.
Admittedly I did lose weight. But I always felt "deprived" and digestively
it was not the best diet for me.

Even Ornish says in his book that some patients ask "Does this diet really
make me live longer, or does it just *feel* longer?" :)

Atkins alludes to this carb-fat mix when he describes how ketosis supposedly
works to block the absorption of fats. He essentially claims that in the
absence of carbohydrates, when your body is in ketosis, you cannot digest
eaten fats and, instead, burns off stored body fat for fuel.

I still have never seen an explanation of how this isn't contradictory with
Atkin's own admission that calories still count. It seems that if his theory
of how ketosis works is true that calories shouldn't count and that eaten
fat just passes through the body. But that is apparently not what happens,
indicating that Atkins is at least partly wrong.

Anyway, I believe some other low-carb diet variations recognize the problems
in mixing carbs and fats. Some apparently let you eat more carbs, as long as
they are separated by several hours from the eating of any fats - another
way of blocking the digestion cycle of fats.

What westerners, like me, often get fat over is the insidious mix of high
carbs with high calorie fats. For example, fried chicken. Or cake. Or bread
and butter. Bread by itself is ok, as part of a low-fat diet. Butter by
itself is ok, as part of a low-carb, high-fat diet. But when they mix
together in your bloodstream apparently you get high fat absorption plus
hungrier, due to the carbs. A viscous cycle.

But Japanese don't go overboard on fats. Their idea of a yummy snack is
sweet bean paste, or a rice cake. Both are very low-fat, so the sugars by
themselves don't really hurt.

doug


On 3/21/04 8:39 AM, in article Fu47c.106833$gw1.2389@nntp-post.primus.ca,
"Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote:

>
>
>>
>> The typical Japanese diet is very high in carbs - basically rice. Meat,
>> fish, chicken and other protein dishes are considered the side dish, and

> in
>> much smaller proportions.
>>

>
> This is what I mean Doug, so if carbs are the problem,(as stated in many of
> our low carb diets) and these folks eat mainly white rice, like italians
> eat pasta (everyday) why aren't they gaining weight?
> If I were to eat a bowl of rice at 2 meals a day with little meat and more
> veggies will i lose weight?
>
> I started adding a cup of brown rice a day after 2 weeks of south Beach
> induction and I gained weight (lots).
>
> Thanks for the replies Liam
>
>


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  #17  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:00 PM
Mirek Fidler
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

> It drives me crazy, millions of asian people eat rice all day, how do
they
> stay skinny? The minute I eat some carbs, bang, I start blowing up.

GRRR
> Is there a reason the oriental folks don't gain weight? Is it genetic?


Unlike other responses, I would speculate that there might be some
genetics invoved after all.

AFAIK, most asian people are far less tolerant to ethanol than western
people. That would indicate their metabolism is a little bit different
after all.

Funny thing is that LC causes something similiar (well known CDS syndrom
:). Maybe there is a connection...

Mirek


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  #18  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:03 PM
Mirek Fidler
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

> I wonder what Sumo wrestlers eat. Do they fatten up on rice, or fish?

AFAIK, rice and chicken.

Mirek


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  #19  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:04 PM
JC Der Koenig
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

Are you still too stupid to figure out how to lose weight? Maybe you'll get
over it, but it's doubtful. Moron.

--
Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)

Becky P.

"Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote in message
news:Hh57c.106917$Fs2.106264@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> Fat yes , moron not, you stupid Twat, why don't you go and reproduce
> yourself?
>
> > 1. Calories matter for weight loss, low carb helps with hunger control.
> >
> > 2. You are a fat moron.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > --
> > Most of us probably aren't in danger of eating too little. :)
> >
> > Becky P.
> >
> > "Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote in message
> > news:Fu47c.106833$gw1.2389@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The typical Japanese diet is very high in carbs - basically rice.

> Meat,
> > > > fish, chicken and other protein dishes are considered the side dish,

> and
> > > in
> > > > much smaller proportions.
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is what I mean Doug, so if carbs are the problem,(as stated in

many
> > of
> > > our low carb diets) and these folks eat mainly white rice, like

> italians
> > > eat pasta (everyday) why aren't they gaining weight?
> > > If I were to eat a bowl of rice at 2 meals a day with little meat and

> more
> > > veggies will i lose weight?
> > >
> > > I started adding a cup of brown rice a day after 2 weeks of south

Beach
> > > induction and I gained weight (lots).
> > >
> > > Thanks for the replies Liam
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



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  #20  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:30 PM
metta
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?


"Cailleachschilde" <cailleachschilde@aol.combyteme> wrote in message
news:20040320170824.01707.00000071@mb-m22.aol.com...

>
> Since all of our processed food has some form of sugar in it, those of us

who
> are overweight are generally insulin resistant and cannot eat rice without
> blowing up. When junk food comes to China, you'll soon see fatter

Chinese.

"when junk food comes to china"???

i assume you've never been there... trust me, there is a TON of junk food
in China. and Pizza Hut, McD's and KFC on every other corner!

-kelly


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  #21  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:39 PM
metta
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?


"Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote in message
news:eR27c.106661$I87.26711@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> It drives me crazy, millions of asian people eat rice all day, how do they
> stay skinny? The minute I eat some carbs, bang, I start blowing up. GRRR
> Is there a reason the oriental folks don't gain weight? Is it genetic?
>


based on my visits to China and SE Asia, i'd say it's a combination of
smaller portions and more exercise. there are fat Asians, but they're often
older people who aren't as active and don't get around as easily. but yes,
portions are smaller, and many people can't afford to eat the same amount of
food that your average American eats.

there are other ways to be thin besides avoiding carbs. riding a bicycle to
work every day is a very good one.

-kelly


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  #22  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:51 PM
metta
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?


"metta" <kelly_marsops_NoSpam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3iros$2917je$1@ID-58739.news.uni-berlin.de...

> based on my visits to China and SE Asia, i'd say it's a combination of
> smaller portions and more exercise. there are fat Asians, but they're

often
> older people who aren't as active and don't get around as easily. but

yes,
> portions are smaller, and many people can't afford to eat the same amount

of
> food that your average American eats.


another thing i should point out is that in many Asian countries, being fat
isn't necessarily a bad thing. it's a sign of wealth. i was pushing 200
pounds when i was there (i'm 5'5"), and i was never lacking for male
attention. this is true in a lot of poor countries. large women are
considered to be healthier, more fertile, etc. it's only in the west that
fat = unhealthy.

-kelly


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  #23  
Old 03-20-2004, 05:55 PM
DigitalVinyl
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

Doug Lerner <doug@lerner.net> wrote:

>What westerners, like me, often get fat over is the insidious mix of high
>carbs with high calorie fats. For example, fried chicken. Or cake. Or bread
>and butter. Bread by itself is ok, as part of a low-fat diet. Butter by
>itself is ok, as part of a low-carb, high-fat diet. But when they mix
>together in your bloodstream apparently you get high fat absorption plus
>hungrier, due to the carbs. A viscous cycle.


I guess my focused question is why doesn't a high-carb diet cause
greater hunger?
Why not blood sugar/insulin swings?
Is there a higher/lower incidence of diabetes in Japan?

Perhaps centuries/millenia of a rice-based diet has changed their
reactions to carbs. Ten-fifteen years ago I recall a news report
saying that Japan was seeing its first noticeable rise in obesity. I
wonder if it was statisically true and the possible cause/timing.


>But Japanese don't go overboard on fats. Their idea of a yummy snack is
>sweet bean paste, or a rice cake. Both are very low-fat, so the sugars by
>themselves don't really hurt.
>
>doug


DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/315/Mar-315/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
OWL-35 carbs/day (CCLL=?)
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2004, 06:01 PM
Bob (this one)
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

jk wrote:

> "Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote in message
> news:eR27c.106661$I87.26711@nntp-post.primus.ca...
>
>>It drives me crazy, millions of asian people eat rice all day, how do they
>>stay skinny? The minute I eat some carbs, bang, I start blowing up. GRRR
>>Is there a reason the oriental folks don't gain weight? Is it genetic?
>>
>>Please someone tell me :-)
>>Liam
>>

> My guess is low calorie, hard work, little creature comforts.


Probably right on the mark.

> Let's face
> it, almost every culture is thin, except the US.


Way off the mark. Europeans are catching up quickly as are Ozzies,
according to their governments.

Pastorio


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  #25  
Old 03-20-2004, 06:15 PM
Liam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?


"Mirek Fidler" <cxl@volny.cz> wrote in message
news:c3ipi2$28kuri$1@ID-198693.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > I wonder what Sumo wrestlers eat. Do they fatten up on rice, or fish?

>
> AFAIK, rice and chicken.


Here's a link to interesting article about sumo eating habits.
[url]http://www.globalpinoy.com/pinoyhealth/ph_fitness/FI012703.htm[/url]


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  #26  
Old 03-20-2004, 07:03 PM
Roger Zoul
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

DigitalVinyl wrote:
:: Doug Lerner <doug@lerner.net> wrote:
::
::: What westerners, like me, often get fat over is the insidious mix
::: of high carbs with high calorie fats. For example, fried chicken.
::: Or cake. Or bread and butter. Bread by itself is ok, as part of a
::: low-fat diet. Butter by itself is ok, as part of a low-carb,
::: high-fat diet. But when they mix together in your bloodstream
::: apparently you get high fat absorption plus hungrier, due to the
::: carbs. A viscous cycle.
::
:: I guess my focused question is why doesn't a high-carb diet cause
:: greater hunger?
:: Why not blood sugar/insulin swings?

Not eating too much and being active moderates swings.

:: Is there a higher/lower incidence of diabetes in Japan?
::
:: Perhaps centuries/millenia of a rice-based diet has changed their
:: reactions to carbs. Ten-fifteen years ago I recall a news report
:: saying that Japan was seeing its first noticeable rise in obesity. I
:: wonder if it was statisically true and the possible cause/timing.

I think things are being viewed way too simply in this thread. Over here,
in the US, we eat a ****load of carbs...think about it...bread, sweets,
juice, potatoes, crackers, chips, candy, fruit, pasta, cookies, cakes, pies,
icecream.....plus a lot of fat on top of that, driving the calories way
up....and we eat a lot and generally don't move much. Most of us go out of
our way to save walking 30 extra feet when we park at the store. This is
why we have such problems, and those in a country with a rice-based diet
will have similar problems if they start overeating carbs (carbs aren't bad,
excessive carbs are as well as excessive fat and excessive calories) and
being inactive. Not may will get fat if they simply eat a bowl of rice 3x
per day. That's not likely to be excessive.

There is no mystery here -- except the one where we dont' understand why
we're fat. Excess is the root of the problem....most people in these
rice-based-diet societies just don't do the excess...

::
::
::: But Japanese don't go overboard on fats. Their idea of a yummy
::: snack is sweet bean paste, or a rice cake. Both are very low-fat,
::: so the sugars by themselves don't really hurt.
:::
::: doug
::
:: DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
:: 350/315/Mar-315/200
:: Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
:: OWL-35 carbs/day (CCLL=?)


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  #27  
Old 03-20-2004, 09:50 PM
Christine
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

There are lots of genetic differences in how we deal with carbs.

"Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote in message
news:eR27c.106661$I87.26711@nntp-post.primus.ca...
> It drives me crazy, millions of asian people eat rice all day, how do they
> stay skinny? The minute I eat some carbs, bang, I start blowing up. GRRR
> Is there a reason the oriental folks don't gain weight? Is it genetic?
>
> Please someone tell me :-)
> Liam
>
>



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  #28  
Old 03-20-2004, 10:56 PM
Jean M.
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

"Christine" <Christine@noemail.com> wrote:

>There are lots of genetic differences in how we deal with carbs.
>
>"Liam" <fwff@notoday.com> wrote in message
>news:eR27c.106661$I87.26711@nntp-post.primus.ca...
>> It drives me crazy, millions of asian people eat rice all day, how do they
>> stay skinny? The minute I eat some carbs, bang, I start blowing up. GRRR
>> Is there a reason the oriental folks don't gain weight? Is it genetic?
>>
>> Please someone tell me :-)
>> Liam
>>
>>

>


It very well could be that high carbs with high fat is the problem.
Carbs with low fat seems to help keep the pounds from piling on and so
does high fat with low carbs.

--
Jean M.
New food of the week: water chestnuts

Do away with flipfloping to e-mail.
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2004, 11:03 PM
Stefan
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

In article <Fu47c.106833$gw1.2389@nntp-post.primus.ca>, [email]fwff@notoday.com[/email]
says...
> This is what I mean Doug, so if carbs are the problem,(as stated in many of
> our low carb diets) and these folks eat mainly white rice, like italians
> eat pasta (everyday) why aren't they gaining weight?


I used to visit Italy often, and don't remember seeing very many thin
Italians aged over 40.
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2004, 11:03 PM
JD
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Default Re: How do asians stay skinny with all the rice?

"Stefan" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message
news:c3jef3$mtc$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
> In article <Fu47c.106833$gw1.2389@nntp-post.primus.ca>,
> [email]fwff@notoday.com[/email] says...
>> This is what I mean Doug, so if carbs are the problem,(as stated in
>> many of our low carb diets) and these folks eat mainly white rice,
>> like italians eat pasta (everyday) why aren't they gaining weight?

>
> I used to visit Italy often, and don't remember seeing very many thin
> Italians aged over 40.


I used to work for an Italian company with quite a few over 40. All of them
were thinner than their American counterparts.

JD


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